wammo's and FDS - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

LittleBull · Apr 08, 2006, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Here's some of the problems I see with W/Mo. I know it's a generalization, but given
the sheer number of them in the game, it covers quite a few of people
First of all... they join teams, but are not team players. They "think" they're self
sustaining, but they're not.
As warriors, they're mediocre because they usually waste half of their skill slots on
non damage based skills. Healing breeze, Mending, Ressurect, and of course sprint,
so they can run away and save themselves when everyone starts dying.
As tanks they are just as bad if not worse. They always run straight through all the
heavy hitters like Carvers and Herders and go for the casters in the back, leaving
the casters in their "team" to tank. Since they still have no damage based skills
equipped, it takes them forever to kill anything even thought they're "tanking"
casters. Another problem with this is that because they go for the casters in the
back, the other people in the "team" are forced to come into aggro range to support
their "team mate" making a bad situation worse. A lot of times a monk is forced to
run straight through aggro to try and get to him before the "self sustaining" fool
spamming HEAL HEAL HEAL is dead. I've been playing long enough to know that
it's best to just let him / her die, but most others will die trying to help them.
Anyway, that's a few things that come to mind real quick, and I'm mainly talking
about PvE PUGs. I'm sure it's different in PvP and guild groups, but I don't do them
much.
As far as I can tell the FDS is as good as any other sword in the game, all else being
equal.

Wretchman Drake · Apr 08, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Can't Mark of Rodgort + FDS work? I'm not saying a W/E use this because this would destroy your energy pool but have an ele in your party do this? It probably wouldn't be that bad, maybe the Warrior run Battle Rage {E} with Sever Artery + Gash + Final Thrust.

Maria The Princess · Apr 09, 2006, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by noice1

True, lots of players play W/Mo, but I really haven't seen too many "noob" Warriors. Maybe I just don't notice it as I, myself, am holding my own in every fight. Maybe if I was a another caster or playing on my elementalist I'd notice the noob warrior of the party? Guess I've been fortunate, and there seems to be an exploded population of warriors in general in the game, while monks are still hard to come by. I don't have a FDS or IDS and I get by just fine.

the Noobs wariors are very easy to spot:

1-is a swordmaship warrior who tries to replace a stance tank
2-dies evry 2 minutes
3-seems to be more excited then anyone
4-dosnt really know whats the mission/team objective
5-when joined didnt inquire of party build, didnt share his own (as: Hi! im Stance tank, who is the bonder? etc)

6-and a classic: even if has Spitful Spirit on him, he stands next to team mate stance tank and keeps doin cyclone axe

Overlord07 · Apr 09, 2006, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Hahaha Why is there all this fuss over freakin swords???!!! Why use a lame sword when you can use an awsome HAMMER!!! As Don Zardeone said, look at the stats... 15-22dmg (sword) v. 28-35dmg (hammer). Sure theres a difference in attack times, 1.22sec (sword) v. 1.75sec (hammer). But whats a lousy .53 sec between attacks when theres such a difference in dmg done? Come on! Look at the FACTS!!!

Savio · Apr 09, 2006, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overlord07

Hahaha Why is there all this fuss over freakin swords???!!! Why use a lame sword when you can use an awsome HAMMER!!! As Don Zardeone said, look at the stats... 15-22dmg (sword) v. 28-35dmg (hammer). Sure theres a difference in attack times, 1.22sec (sword) v. 1.75sec (hammer). But whats a lousy .53 sec between attacks when theres such a difference in dmg done? Come on! Look at the FACTS!!!

Your numbers are all off. Hammer damage is 19-35 max. Sword swing time is 1.33 seconds. Hammers do a slight bit more damage over time and have knockdown chains, but swords have the ability to bring along a non-attack elite, like Charge. They're fairly balanced in terms of what they do.

Why people don't like Wammos and FDSes in PvP:

Avarre · Apr 09, 2006, 06:42 AM // 06:42

Yeah, because with hammer you can tank SO well. -16 armor and +2/+4 damage isn't worth the extra damage in PvE.

In PvP, hammers are cool but both them and swords have their place.

Maria The Princess · Apr 09, 2006, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Yeah, because with hammer you can tank SO well. -16 armor and +2/+4 damage isn't worth the extra damage in PvE.

In PvP, hammers are cool but both them and swords have their place.

very good point, and i believe swords can also interrupt, so hummer is replacable. the "two handed" is a BIG down side

Cherno · Apr 09, 2006, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urias Skult

FDS isnt a terribly bad sword, but its now considered newbish with all the superior gold, green and other rare weapons with better stats. Newbs usually use a FDS as its cheap and it looks cool.

So tell me how your 15^50 Fiery Fellblade of whatever is any better than my 15^50 Fiery Dragon Sword of the Same Whatever.

People just like to feel like they are better than others. Because that is the first really unique skin that is seen in presearing people want to get one. "Experienced" players like to pick on those people.

If you need a Fiery sword for some reason, there is nothing wrong with it being an FDS as long as it has good stats. It all comes down to a matter of skin preference.

Same thing with "Wammos" Just about every guide or site I have seen indicate that a Warrior/Monk is a good way for brand new players to start. You can do simple play with some self heals. It is the unfortunate wammos that have an inflated since of invincibility and lack of understanding of team dynamics that give warrior/monks a bad name without having even seeing the person play.

Cherno · Apr 09, 2006, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by LittleBull

As warriors, they're mediocre because they usually waste half of their skill slots on non damage based skills.

So all those defense/stance based tanks are mediocre?

It all depends on the role you are playing. In many areas a true tank can have 0 dmg skills on the bar and serve his role to a t.

Also, some warriors (as well as many other classes) use monk secondary just for a reusable res, while the rest of the bar is filled with their primary skills.

Fluffyx · Apr 09, 2006, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Leprechaun

why dont people like wammo's i dont se th piont is it because there are loads of them?

also why do people say a FDS is the noobs weapon of chioce has it got some fatal flaw with it or is it just not very rare?
A leprechaun

People don't like wamos for a few reasons, which I think are completely just an overgeneralization. Most of it is because people tend to think Wamos have a lone wolf mentality and think they're invincible. Of course you find this with any other class its just warriors are a VERY popular class, and theres a lot of warrior hate out there.
FDS was a very popular weapon. Most likely they assume they jumped on the bandwagon and use it because everyone else thinks its cool.

Cottage Pie · Apr 09, 2006, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ophidian409

For those who don't understand why FDS is a noob weapon let me explain clearly to you.

Fiery dragon sword has an inherent "fiery sword hilt" that you cannot replace with another hilt. There are many useful sword hilt such as zealous, barbed, crippling, poisoning, sundering etc. Fiery hilt doesn't do any bonus except that it can do extra damage to icy mobs. People say you are noob becasue they see you are using FDS against normal mobs, but people don't say that when you kill icy mobs, they just think you are smart unless they don't know that.

Wrong, firey is a very useful mod type. It negates +xx ar Vs physical resistances and does more damage to undead and icy, also triggers conjour flame. it's 100 times more useful than sundering, but personally I tend to use Zealous mods on a paladin-esk build.

xiv · Apr 09, 2006, 03:09 PM // 15:09

ok yeah its true wammo isa great first charit happened to be my firstchar. there very well balanced n the means they can use self heal etc the real advantages of wammos is how cheap and easy itis to make money by urself with them and also how easy it is to run to certain places. i ran myself to quite a few places with him. i don't play on him very much memore but hes a great char.

on the fds. it has one major flaw. u can't add a new prefix. you can't remove the firery mod for a new one like sundering which is what most people want on there weapons. ect this drawback akes it unwanted not tomention the skin is way to common.

Don Zardeone · Apr 09, 2006, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Someone mentioned that many fansites say that wammo is a good idea for a first character or first warrior or whatever.
Imo, it should say that wammo is an "easier" profession combo.

I think it is a bit more complicated to play an effective W/Me or W/E in PvE (when you're new to to GW) but that doesn't mean it's worse than W/Mo. It just requires a little bit more thinking.

Wammo is like this:
"I smash the mean things and then I heal my owie."

Other secondaries think like this:
"We will probably be fighting these and those, we have these guys in our team so I better bring this and that. Oh wait, I don't have a skill that does this, better ask team if they can bring it instead. Oops almost forgot to bring res."

Etc...

EDIT/ but not all wammos are like that!

LittleBull · Apr 09, 2006, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherno

So all those defense/stance based tanks are mediocre?

It all depends on the role you are playing. In many areas a true tank can have 0 dmg skills on the bar and serve his role to a t.

Also, some warriors (as well as many other classes) use monk secondary just for a reusable res, while the rest of the bar is filled with their primary skills.

Oh!! Jeez! Cherno... it says right there in the quote... "As warriors. they're mediocre".

And I also stated why they make poor tanks too... because they usually go after the casters
rather than drawing the aggro of the heavy hitters like they should.
It's not that thay can't be good tanks... it's that they "aren't" good tanks.

Oh... and the last thing I would want from a warrior in PvE is the ability
to rez.

There is a differance between a "warrior" and a "tank" right?
Maybe that's part of the problem. When I say I'm looking for
a tank, I'm looking for something different than when I say I'm
looking for a warrior. I guess that not everyone sees a them
as two kinds of builds.
Be that as it may... W/Mo's still aren't very good as either.

Maria The Princess · Apr 09, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

look at Sorows Furnace 5 man build. Wammo is pure stance, maby 1 or 2 damage skills, and we need that so miions and ss necro can just kill the bad guys without dealing with aggro. i actually prefer having stance tank in team then damage warior, cuz they just die waaaay to much and waist my energy.

but its really how YOU play+what team needs from you.

Evilsod · Apr 09, 2006, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Stance tanks don't HAVE to be pure damage reduction/evasion

I have a Victos Axe (customise) req 9 and a Chaos Axe req 8 (same stats not customised).
I use the chaos for stance tanking, victos for everything else (least till i decide to customise it) purely because i'm not there to do damage, i'm there to assist the rest of em so all i take it Dismember (nothing beats a deep wound) and Power Attack so i stick with the lowest req i can get (using a sup of course to help).

Since when did Fiery do more to undead? Isn't it just Holy that does extra damage there?

Zardeone, Wammo is definatly the easier profession to play first, not the best to start with.

Imo ranger is the best. It lets you know your still a priority squishy so casters are gonna be screwed even more and you can paly many different styles.

I have no problem bringing an FDS if it might be useful, but the real question is, is it customised? Using a green weapon because you think it looks good (or anything for that matter) then not customising is the nooby thing to do. 20% extra damage is somet you can't turn down.

Da Cebuano · Apr 09, 2006, 06:34 PM // 18:34

To simply answer your question, its all about Mentality. W/mo and FDS are MAINSTREAM, as we all know that Mainstream = bad and being different =good and rarity = godly. Thus, it doesn't matter if its bad or good, as people are already set on it being bad cause every other guy has one.

Also, w/mos can be good as long as warrior don't forget the fact that they are warriors and not healer monks. I find it incredibly stupid for w/mos to bring mending/healbreeze in pvp, in pve it might be essential in solos but c'mon. A w/mo w/ FDS w/ 20% enchant pommel can use a judges ensight build to ignore other warr's 20% vs physical w/ another 20% armor penetration. In fact, alot of top players go w/ w/mo even though they only use warr skills because you normally wont find w/mos in anywhere but noob arenas, its "different".

Evilsod · Apr 09, 2006, 06:48 PM // 18:48

W/Mos using healing prayers in PvP? You've gotta be talking about RA/TA in that case.

Out of interest, why the FDS? Judges Insight makes damage into Holy, so surely that would bypass the warriors vs physical anyway?

Unless i intend to use my 2ndary professions its always set to /Mo anyway just for the res. Think i have 5 chars as x/Mo and my W/N (Plague Touch ftw in PvE). Seriously why Mend Ailment yourself when you might aswell just give them blind right back? Makes Thirsty River fun to do after you've just blinded the 4th Avenger.

How often do you find yourself up against another Warrior anyway? Solo trips vs ettins obviously, solo FoW only the snarling. PvP, seriously how often do warriors go after warriors there? I'm not big with PvP but as far as i know its not often.
In reality really you may be doing that little extra to warriors w/ your FDS but your still doing much less to everything else. Hell that FDS could practically halve your damage vs a ranger.

Permasiel · Apr 09, 2006, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Only one reason to be a w/mo in pve : rebirth.

Of course you always end up in groups where people think it's the monk's job to rez.

The Renegade Healer · Apr 09, 2006, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Fiery mods may get past physical armor, but are we forgetting about elemental resistance? Sure it'll do extra damage to icy mobs, but it'll do even less damage to fiery mobs. And rangers.

Apr 09, 2006, 06:31 AM // 06:31	#24
Overlord07 Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: The Kingdom of Hell Profession: W/E	Swords? What swords??? Hahaha Why is there all this fuss over freakin swords???!!! Why use a lame sword when you can use an awsome HAMMER!!! As Don Zardeone said, look at the stats... 15-22dmg (sword) v. 28-35dmg (hammer). Sure theres a difference in attack times, 1.22sec (sword) v. 1.75sec (hammer). But whats a lousy .53 sec between attacks when theres such a difference in dmg done? Come on! Look at the FACTS!!!

Apr 09, 2006, 06:20 PM // 18:20	#36
Evilsod Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: England Guild: Lievs Death Squad [LDS]	Stance tanks don't HAVE to be pure damage reduction/evasion I have a Victos Axe (customise) req 9 and a Chaos Axe req 8 (same stats not customised). I use the chaos for stance tanking, victos for everything else (least till i decide to customise it) purely because i'm not there to do damage, i'm there to assist the rest of em so all i take it Dismember (nothing beats a deep wound) and Power Attack so i stick with the lowest req i can get (using a sup of course to help). Since when did Fiery do more to undead? Isn't it just Holy that does extra damage there? Zardeone, Wammo is definatly the easier profession to play first, not the best to start with. Imo ranger is the best. It lets you know your still a priority squishy so casters are gonna be screwed even more and you can paly many different styles. I have no problem bringing an FDS if it might be useful, but the real question is, is it customised? Using a green weapon because you think it looks good (or anything for that matter) then not customising is the nooby thing to do. 20% extra damage is somet you can't turn down. Last edited by Evilsod; Apr 09, 2006 at 06:28 PM // 18:28..

Apr 08, 2006, 06:06 PM // 18:06	#21
LittleBull Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jan 2006	Here's some of the problems I see with W/Mo. I know it's a generalization, but given the sheer number of them in the game, it covers quite a few of people First of all... they join teams, but are not team players. They "think" they're self sustaining, but they're not. As warriors, they're mediocre because they usually waste half of their skill slots on non damage based skills. Healing breeze, Mending, Ressurect, and of course sprint, so they can run away and save themselves when everyone starts dying. As tanks they are just as bad if not worse. They always run straight through all the heavy hitters like Carvers and Herders and go for the casters in the back, leaving the casters in their "team" to tank. Since they still have no damage based skills equipped, it takes them forever to kill anything even thought they're "tanking" casters. Another problem with this is that because they go for the casters in the back, the other people in the "team" are forced to come into aggro range to support their "team mate" making a bad situation worse. A lot of times a monk is forced to run straight through aggro to try and get to him before the "self sustaining" fool spamming HEAL HEAL HEAL is dead. I've been playing long enough to know that it's best to just let him / her die, but most others will die trying to help them. Anyway, that's a few things that come to mind real quick, and I'm mainly talking about PvE PUGs. I'm sure it's different in PvP and guild groups, but I don't do them much. As far as I can tell the FDS is as good as any other sword in the game, all else being equal.

Apr 08, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00	#22
Wretchman Drake Jungle Guide Join Date: Sep 2005 Guild: Charr Carvings and [BeeR]	Can't Mark of Rodgort + FDS work? I'm not saying a W/E use this because this would destroy your energy pool but have an ele in your party do this? It probably wouldn't be that bad, maybe the Warrior run Battle Rage {E} with Sever Artery + Gash + Final Thrust.

Apr 09, 2006, 06:42 AM // 06:42	#26
Avarre Bubblegum Patrol Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Singapore Armed Forces	Yeah, because with hammer you can tank SO well. -16 armor and +2/+4 damage isn't worth the extra damage in PvE. In PvP, hammers are cool but both them and swords have their place.

Apr 09, 2006, 03:09 PM // 15:09	#32
xiv Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Dec 2005 Guild: sins will never vanish [NoiR] Profession: Mo/Me	ok yeah its true wammo isa great first charit happened to be my firstchar. there very well balanced n the means they can use self heal etc the real advantages of wammos is how cheap and easy itis to make money by urself with them and also how easy it is to run to certain places. i ran myself to quite a few places with him. i don't play on him very much memore but hes a great char. on the fds. it has one major flaw. u can't add a new prefix. you can't remove the firery mod for a new one like sundering which is what most people want on there weapons. ect this drawback akes it unwanted not tomention the skin is way to common.

Apr 09, 2006, 03:25 PM // 15:25	#33
Don Zardeone Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Oct 2005	Someone mentioned that many fansites say that wammo is a good idea for a first character or first warrior or whatever. Imo, it should say that wammo is an "easier" profession combo. I think it is a bit more complicated to play an effective W/Me or W/E in PvE (when you're new to to GW) but that doesn't mean it's worse than W/Mo. It just requires a little bit more thinking. Wammo is like this: "I smash the mean things and then I heal my owie." Other secondaries think like this: "We will probably be fighting these and those, we have these guys in our team so I better bring this and that. Oh wait, I don't have a skill that does this, better ask team if they can bring it instead. Oops almost forgot to bring res." Etc... EDIT/ but not all wammos are like that!

Apr 09, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19	#35
Maria The Princess Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2006 Guild: Aequitas Deis	look at Sorows Furnace 5 man build. Wammo is pure stance, maby 1 or 2 damage skills, and we need that so miions and ss necro can just kill the bad guys without dealing with aggro. i actually prefer having stance tank in team then damage warior, cuz they just die waaaay to much and waist my energy. but its really how YOU play+what team needs from you.

Apr 09, 2006, 06:34 PM // 18:34	#37
Da Cebuano Desert Nomad Join Date: May 2005 Location: Virginia born in Cebu Guild: Jelly Toast[jT] Profession: W/	To simply answer your question, its all about Mentality. W/mo and FDS are MAINSTREAM, as we all know that Mainstream = bad and being different =good and rarity = godly. Thus, it doesn't matter if its bad or good, as people are already set on it being bad cause every other guy has one. Also, w/mos can be good as long as warrior don't forget the fact that they are warriors and not healer monks. I find it incredibly stupid for w/mos to bring mending/healbreeze in pvp, in pve it might be essential in solos but c'mon. A w/mo w/ FDS w/ 20% enchant pommel can use a judges ensight build to ignore other warr's 20% vs physical w/ another 20% armor penetration. In fact, alot of top players go w/ w/mo even though they only use warr skills because you normally wont find w/mos in anywhere but noob arenas, its "different".

Apr 09, 2006, 06:48 PM // 18:48	#38
Evilsod Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: England Guild: Lievs Death Squad [LDS]	W/Mos using healing prayers in PvP? You've gotta be talking about RA/TA in that case. Out of interest, why the FDS? Judges Insight makes damage into Holy, so surely that would bypass the warriors vs physical anyway? Unless i intend to use my 2ndary professions its always set to /Mo anyway just for the res. Think i have 5 chars as x/Mo and my W/N (Plague Touch ftw in PvE). Seriously why Mend Ailment yourself when you might aswell just give them blind right back? Makes Thirsty River fun to do after you've just blinded the 4th Avenger. How often do you find yourself up against another Warrior anyway? Solo trips vs ettins obviously, solo FoW only the snarling. PvP, seriously how often do warriors go after warriors there? I'm not big with PvP but as far as i know its not often. In reality really you may be doing that little extra to warriors w/ your FDS but your still doing much less to everything else. Hell that FDS could practically halve your damage vs a ranger.

Apr 09, 2006, 06:54 PM // 18:54	#39
Permasiel Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Aug 2005 Guild: Frozen Flame [ICE] Profession: E/Mo	Only one reason to be a w/mo in pve : rebirth. Of course you always end up in groups where people think it's the monk's job to rez.

Apr 09, 2006, 07:30 PM // 19:30	#40
The Renegade Healer Academy Page Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: NYC Guild: Go Hoax Yourself [HOAX] Profession: Mo/Me	Fiery mods may get past physical armor, but are we forgetting about elemental resistance? Sure it'll do extra damage to icy mobs, but it'll do even less damage to fiery mobs. And rangers.